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Цитата: Gundir от Сегодня в 10:41:17

Цитата: Alexeyy от июля 05, 2025, 01:00:02А в чём сложность?

В том, что это только для закипания. А при вываривании жира часами объем камней будет сильно больше объема воды. Куда то ведь еще придется кости поместить.
Но, тут, на мой взгляд, не учтено, что отдавшие тепло камни можно перманентно удалять из емкости

Согласен: по-моему, это решает проблему.

Цитата: npvol от июля 05, 2025, 11:33:32у меня, увы, нет yotube.

И что Вы предлагаете? Чтобы я Вам как то ютюб установил? Большинство сограждан справляются с этой задачей самостоятельно. Это положительно интересно, статью Вы читать не можете, ролик смотреть не можете. А что можете, в карманный бильярд играть?

Цитата: npvol от июля 05, 2025, 11:33:32Но я почти уверен (и приведенное Gundirом в посте 141 это, кажется, подтверждает),

Ни в коей мере не подтверждает.

Цитата: npvol от июля 05, 2025, 11:33:32что сколько не набрасывай раскаленных камней в сосуд, вода не закипит.

Подозреваю, что Вы убегали в 6-7 классе школы с уроков физики. Небось в киношку?

Цитата: npvol от июля 05, 2025, 11:33:32Она не закипит и в кожаном мешке и в пластиковом стаканчике

Вы с пластиковым стаканчиком можете поставить опыт в домашних условиях. Достаточно иметь газовую плиту.

Цитата: npvol от июля 05, 2025, 11:33:32А самое главное, что это в случае с костным жиром бессмысленно, скорее всего...

Это еще почему?

Цитата: Alexeyy от июля 05, 2025, 01:00:02А в чём сложность?

В том, что это только для закипания. А при вываривании жира часами объем камней будет сильно больше объема воды. Куда то ведь еще придется кости поместить.
Но, тут, на мой взгляд, не учтено, что отдавшие тепло камни можно перманентно удалять из емкости

  Ох, уж эти уровни, а тем более уровни организованности. Пока их не взяться выделять, то их и нет, а как выделил, так они оказываются квантованными, то есть межуровневый переход обязательно окажется связанным с поглощением или выделением строго дозированной порции.

  У нас есть эректус, как вид-предтеча, дающий ответвления к новым формам, которые требуют своих собственных имен. При этом эректус не вымирает, а, допустим, вытесняется из Африки. Получаем Африканские формы (их много), условно европейские (неандры) и азиатские (денисовец, синантроп).
  Не будем гадать о причинностях-факторах внешних-природных, а токмо о той внутренней, которую назовем становление социума. Что должно произойти с индивидуами-особями, что бы у них родилась потребность ощущать "плечо товарища"? Я отвечаю так: только утрата врожденных инстинктов-рефлексов (фенотипических навыков) понуждает искать того сородича, который развил один из навыков, взамен утраты другого. Получаем, типа притчи о паре раненных в крыло ангелов, которые могут взлетать только парой.
  Или математически для изолированного племени - экспонентно ниспадающая траектория утрат, имеет своего антагонистического двойника - симметрично восходящую траекторию. Но когда математика до лампочки, придется говорить, что эффективность выживания естественно деградирующего сообщества зависит от способности индивидуумов найти своего антагониста для производства той работы, на которую "одинокость" уже не способна. Следовательно, ломается веками устаканенная психика свободного "гражданина", а рождается психика с приматом вспомоществования - это как лирики и физики могут выжить только вместе.
  Катаклизм - это разрушительный переворот, "кто был ничем, тот станет всем". И не надо привлекать природных катаклизмов, которые только тушуют катаклизмы нарождающегося сообщества. Достаточно разобраться с единственным племенем-социумом, что бы ввести "отбор" на тех инородцев, которые принимают наработанные правила и находят свое "незанятое" место в социуме, что бы конвергировать уже на биологическом уровне. Вот это заполнение "незанятых мест" и приведет к обязательному внутреннему катаклизму, как причинно-следственному перевертышу.
  "Перевертыш" - это новый уровень организации, который не мог состояться эволюционно - это, по-сути, разрушительная революция, позитив от которой только один: в базовых инстинктах родилась вакантная брешь, требующая своего наполнения индивидуальностями и личностями, уже осознанно отказывающимися от свободы быть всем сразу, в пользу знания своего узкоспециализированного места.

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Цитата: Micr от июля 05, 2025, 19:05:30И еще так (поставить вопрос): есть ли в традиционной культуре современных северных народов вываривание жира из костей? И сколько граммов мяса в день они едят?

В вываренных костях, кроме жира, есть коллагена (холодец), а также уйма питательных (в какой-то степени, целебных) веществ. Вроде бы, даже у современных киргизов (т.е. даже не север) осталась традиция вываривать кости для лечебных целей (правда, точно не знаю).

Цитата: thinkany.aiВ традиционной культуре современных северных народов действительно существует вываривание жира из костей. Этот процесс включает извлечение жира из трубчатых костей, который затем используется для приготовления различных блюд. Например, в некоторых северных культурах, таких как у ненцев, практикуется получение жира из рыбьих и животных остатков, используя его для питания и в народной медицине.

Что касается суточной нормы потребления мяса, северные народы часто имеют высокое мясное питание, особенно в условиях сурового климата. Например, эскимосы употребляют в пищу почти исключительно мясо и рыбу, что составляет их основной рацион. В некоторых случаях потребление мяса может составлять до 300-500 граммов в день и более, в зависимости от доступности ресурсов и традиционных обычаев.

Таким образом, вываривание жира из костей является важной частью традиционной кулинарной практики, а потребление мяса в день может значительно варьироваться, в основном оставаясь на высоком уровне для поддержания жизнедеятельности в экстремальных северных условиях.

 
 
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Цитата: Micr от июля 05, 2025, 19:05:30А доказано ли, что они этот жир ели?

хороший и уместный вопрос

А земледелие это по большому счету и в первую очередь - выращивание в основном злаков - пшеницы, ячменя, кукурузы, риса... Оказывается они содержат белки, которые могут заменить животные...
Что касается жиров, то они содержатся почти в любом мясе и во многих растениях. Затевать какие-то сложные технологические процессы ради того, что можно получить гораздо проще - нелепо.
Вопрос варки продуктов, конечно, был актуален для человека. Варки овощей, мяса. Костей, безусловно, в меньшей степени.  Но до начала неолита и керамических технологий этот вопрос был практически неосуществим...
Я так думаю